I think you’ve captured the dilemma well - stick of twist with Moyes. It’s not like Lampard or Benitez where anyone will be better; Moyes does a solid job but, as you say, we should be aiming for better than solid.

Managers should be heavily financially incentivised to invest playing time in players under 23. I think everyone is clear what Keane, McNeil and co will get you - and it’s bottom half of the table.

25 years ago, I was at an end of season game at Southampton, a sunny afternoon, 15 minutes to go, the Blues 1-0 up, nothing much at stake

There was a buzz, then the chant of “Rooney, Rooney” went up as the young substitute started to warm up. Then he was told by Moyes to sit down again.

25 years. I’m bored.

The large increase in the season ticket price does seem shortsighted.It seems to stretch the idea that Evertonian are prepared to watch shit in the new stadium, get a price increase through.

Oh for a Vision that all can buy into.That seems to be what is required. There are always problems, but in the words of that time honoured Americanism : Don't give me problems, give me solutions'.TFG, to live is to learn.

I'm starting to feel like our guns were spiked before we were even able to get going. The decision to appoint Kinnear I fear has set us back at least five years. they've given a mediocre commercial operator the job of shaping the whole club. So he's been making football decisions, appointing the recruitment team, setting the targets, communicating with the fanbase, raising the prices, and none of it inspires confidence.

The most critical aspect for an owner is to make the right hires, just look at Liverpool. We seem to have stumbled on some blert from the Championship and given him the keys to the kingdom. And then the owners ask for six monthly updates.

Hands off is an understatement.

Kevin#5

It was unusual to appoint a Chief Executive and set up a flat structure doing away with the Football Director role and then allowing Moyes such oversay.The Chief Executives recent statements really say nothing , Though late night weekly meeting with Houston HO are suppose to be a regular feature , plus the supply of Analytical reports after every match.Moyes is suppose to be attending weekly analytics meetings.You would wonder what is the take home from them.

Jerome
I just find it bewildering that such a non football man is having such input on the football side. His expertise is cut price chicken wings, not premier league footballers.

The most truthful analysis, The Silent Friedkin’s should be given is that a lot of very longstanding and long serving Evertonians, have got very similar feelings to Peter Mills.

Kevin#7

It remains to be seen if he has input.Moyes is almost arrogance with confidence in his position.It could be a difficult season coming up.I hope I am not going to have to listen to Moyes saying he needs players, after his Sabbatical in the America, preseason.

Jerome - thanks for some very informative if sobering (only because they relate to my own reality about Everton) articles.

When people such as you, Peter and Antony offer comment and analysis that aligns with my own thoughts, it does show what a long way back we have to become the club that aligns with our motto.

Nothing satisfies but the best finished long ago when the Moores family no longer wanted Everton and Bill Kenwright did and eventually got his way. He found the perfect manager who somehow has gotten back into a position of clear dominance and control. What a fortunate man David Moyes is to have gained 10 years as Everton manager whilst presiding over predominantly mediocrity or failure and cosying up with his Chairman. Like Antony, I am sicked by the departure he got. However, I am more sicked by his return to both the club and his methods of running it.

Keep the analysis coming - you never know - someone within Everton may actually read this site.

Kevin#7

Just asked myself some questions.

what has Kinnesr actually built at Everton?

· A flat structure that, from the outside, looks identical to the old manager-led model.

· Young signings who don't play.

· A recruitment strategy that delivered Grealish and Dewsbury-Hall as the headline acts.

· A head coach who has total control and just presided over a collapse from 8th to 13th.

If Kinnear's expertise is being applied anywhere, it's not visible on the pitch.Kevin is actually right.

Thanks Ken,but I really thought that change was been driven off pitch, but Kevin is right. Kinnear can talk the talk, but it is now doubtful if he can walk the walk.

I thought Moyes had been imposed on the Management of Everton in the interests of stability, but what if Kinnear wanted him, and was listening to the Finch Farm preference. That could explain how weak Kinnear actually now looks and talks.

My suspicion is that our Club’s owners may not care one jot that longstanding supporters have become jaded.

Most of us are paying concessionary prices. Get rid of us, there is a long list of people willing to pay full whack.

Anthony#8

I have same feelings.Moyes should be out the door.

Kinnear has opened his mouth and let the cat out of the bag.This is really disappointing.

Peter#2

And that's worse than incompetence It's indifference dressed up as patience.

What if TFG are asking for updates , not accountability?

peter with regards to 25 years ago away to southampton I think it was the other "sweaty sock" awful scottish manager walter smith..but exactly what moyes would do
mind you he beat the rs at mordor could moyes ever do that ?? NO !

moyes out kinnear the blurt out was'nt kinnear talking about suing everton when he was at leeds a couple of years ago ? the cliche ridden corporate KPI monitoring blurt
only at everton !

Philip#15 - my mistake, it was 24 years ago, not 25. I mis-counted the annual chalk marks on the cold grey wall of my Evertonian prison cell.

The man who refused to allow young Wayne onto the pitch that day was David Moyes. It was probably the first demonstration of the faux-Fergie persona he created for himself.

Peter, I can’t believe it’s 25 years since a 16 year old Wayne Rooney hinted that he could single-handedly rebuild the Everton that we once knew. Jack Grealish is probably the first attacking footballer since who isn’t actually terrified of the ball, and who is willing to retain possession until a better option becomes available. Also Interesting that Dewsbury-Hall was the only player to acknowledge that we were rubbish post Chelsea, yet neither our captain nor manager thought that we had any reason to complain.

John - our captain on the field is lucky to still be getting a game so he will not rock the Moyes boat for sure. Such levels of performance combined with a lack of real leadership on the field and appropriate interventions when other captains seem to have far more influence with refereeing decisions contribute to our current and long standing malaise.

Without the clear root and branch reform to which Jerome is alluding, we are all alongside Peter in the Everton school of groundhog days and tedium at the lack of will within the club to move forward.

Ken#18

If Kevin is right—and to me it looks like he is—then Everton's reform is going to take much longer than many of us expected.

The appointments of Kinnear and the initial financial restructuring looked promising. Kinnear spoke well about building a proper football structure and a long-term vision for the club. The transfer policy also appeared sensible, limiting the familiar cycle of filling the squad with overpaid pexperienced mid-table professionals.

However, much of what we have seen under Moyes has seemed at odds with those early messages. His public complaints preseason about needing an entirely new squad and his criticism of younger players should have been addressed. Instead, they appeared to go unchecked.

Looking back over the season, it is difficult to understand what was being discussed in those weekly analytics meetings because very few of the issues that supporters witnessed week after week seemed to be corrected.

The collapse from 5th to 13th was not a minor decline—it was a complete collapse. To lose that many points and fall that far down the table raises serious questions about the direction of the club.

What exactly are TFG doing?

In the cold light of day Everton FC were right to replace Sean Dyche with David Moyes. But they were also wrong to extend his stay beyond seasons end. Talk of a further contract can only be addressed should he actually win something in what is hopefully, his final season.

That we are unhappy is of no consequence to the decision makers at the club, obviously the objective given to Moyes was stay out of relegation and see how far you can push it.

Unless we sit in the bottom 5 next season it looks as though everyone is comfortable with "stability" indeed TFG would only be likely to replace him then because of the potential financial threat of relegation. Even under Dyche the silence and absence of leadership off the pitch was absolutely disgraceful. It took Dyche to throw his toys out the pram before they acted. Up to that point Dyche had to front every question about everything happening at the club, on and off the pitch. He wasn't good enough but he was totally committed but hung out to dry.

Stability does not exist in the Premier League. It is a dynamic, ruthless, adversarial competition where surviving each season requires utter ruthlessness of managers, boards and owners.

Stability in such an environment is gutless worthless words designed to gloss over inadequacies of those running the club, it keeps the heat off them but ultimately they are found out.

The very essence of good leadership is the communication of a vision and how you are going to get there. Laugh if you like but that's exactly how and you win. You know, from the very top to the very bottom, all pushing in the same direction. I've said it before, achieving that at Everton is like herding cats.

Just exactly what would it take for the board at this club to give direction?

1. Tell us what we hope to achieve by when.

2. Tell us how we will achieve that.

3. Tell us the milestones along the way.

4. Tell us what is needed to do it.

5. Tell us who is responsible.

6. Tell us why we should trust them to deliver

Simple words, totally absent at this club. All you have to do is lay it out, the strategy. Communicate the damn thing so we know.

Thats how a business operates, thats what we are and more. That's your job Angus, that's your responsibility TFG.

Just show some balls.

Correction #19 Challenging 5th.Actually got to 8th.Still a significant collapse.

Apparently, we were briefly up to 5th after the victory over Forest on 6th December, Jerome. We inevitably drifted down to 12th, rallied to 8th & then fell away again. Everton that!

Dennis#22

Thanks Dennis.

I thought we where, but the doubts crept in after years of hoping they would get a win to advance up the table under Moyes only be be disappointment.

It now more than a collapse, it is a disaster.At his subsequent press conferences he showed the indifference that Peter#2 pointed out, as if he was confident that there was not going to be consequences.It even makes Kinnear's it is what it is statement worse.

I think many folks who are tolerant of Moyes II may not realise that he's a shadow of Moyes I, as if the first time 'round hadn't been frustrating enough. When Moyes I left he was statistically the 4th most successful Everton Manager, albeit with a pronounced lack of silverware! However, Moyes II is 16th on the list - below Silva, Kendall II & Allardyce. Still a bit ahead of Smith & Dyche though, just.

I have no expectation of challenging for Europe next season. I'm not particularly hopeful of a top half finish. At best, we may get a fourth season in a row of standing still whilst others progress. At worst, we may be back to battling for survival once again.

Moyes is a bottler, & bottlers bottle.

Regardless of their ambitions for the Club, TFG need to be mindful of their investment & whether it is in safe hands, imo.

Dennis that the now the crux of the matter.

Dennis - I am one of the intolerant ones and I still did not realise. That is not a pretty statistic you outline.

Somehow, in some way, TFG have to be, or be made to be, aware that their investment can only go one way with this manager and his control over seemingly all football matters.

Ken#26

I am begining to think that is was Kinnear who came up with the idea of employing Moyes.Maybe as Kevin says he hadn't the necessary attributes for the job, though he could talk a good job with his flat structure. But Moyes is working as he has always done, as Finch Farm would like. and the flat structure has changed little on the pitch.What if Kinnear was compensating for his inadequacies by relying on Moyes for mid table stability? TFG can mine all the data they want, but they need to be demanding results against a clearly communicated Strategic plan on the Football side.

Jerome
I just don't see where Angus has the CV that you would think 'yes, he's the chap who we re going to trust to turn a relegation threatened team into European contenders'. But we've bet the farm on him now, and the proof of the pudding is about to be revealed.
The more next season hoves into view I'm inclined to think this might just be the year when we finally go. We were a pretty poor team 18 months ago, but since then we've spent a lot of money and other than KDH none of it was able to dislodge the incumbents. they are alll now nearly two years older, we need major signings all over the pitch. And our manager will be spending a month in America. We probably won't have Grealish and Ndiaye, you just look at us with that defence and attack and it really doesn/t bode well.

It should be very easy to improve substantially next season. We fix the glaring issues at full back - and recruit to ensure Keane and Tarkowski are never paired at CB again. If we do that, the whole team is much better structured for attack, possession and an aggressive press. We also need depth for a small, patchy squad still recovering from our severe financial difficulties. Even if we only spend a modest £150m it should be possible to expect better football and a squad really starting to take shape. Personally I’d like to see a braver manager at the helm but even with conservative Moyes there are reasons to be optimistic

Robert#29

The transfer window is likely to be like last Summer. Young players with potential brought in with long term contracts fees to match and old players brought in on loan and short term.contracts but at a budget, with maybe one on high wages.This is the fallout of TFG's Rome experience Everton do not have much headroom under PSR.

A one year extension was signed by Keane on the 22th April2026,taking him to Jul 2027.In Oct 2025 Tarkowski signed a two year contract, until o. the Summer 2028.Moyes at the start of this season said he had adequate cover for the right back position.

Kinnear has allowed the system to maintain itself, layering his flat structure over it

I would mmm m like to be as optimistic as you.It is a pity you are not in charge of recruitment, because you would be able to find the players and implement the necessary changes you outlined.

Moyes will arrive back end of August expressing disappointment in the transfer window ,after his sabbatical in North America.I am determined not to get upset

Let’s see how it plays out Jerome. We’ve still got financial constraints so we won’t be big spenders. That means it can take time to pull off deals and we might not be able to secure our top targets. We do have a proper recruitment team in place now though - and they’ve had time to plan for this too (which they didn’t have last year). So hopefully they have our long overdue galloping full backs lined up already

Robert#31

I actually thought that they did well regarding the young players with potential last Summer, but their development was disappointing. It will be interesting to see what is expected regArding their development this season.I thought Moyes wanted seasoned professionals, but TFG had constraints on such contracts and what could be paid, which was good and a long time coming at Everton
. Grealish ran sour financially when insurance would not pay his wages and he did slow a predictable attack, but had the skill sometimes to create opportunities.

As you say we will have to wait and see and hope.The jury is definitely out.

The Seamus Colman announcement will be interesting.

I know this is looking back (in anger) but I remember like yesterday being in a pre match pub in Fulham as Rooney was breaking through and the energy and anticipation in that bar was palpable.
I hate that little manc kid with the “pleeze buy Wayne Rooney” sign written by his dad and set up by Sky.
We blew that opportunity - I worry that will also blow this (The HD stadium) opportunity as well.

The new stadium should have been the catalyst for a revitalised and resurgent Everton, imo Mark, so when that goal, that was disallowed against Liverpool, first hit the back of the net, then the raw noise, raw passion and scenes of absolute joy, that engulfed the stadium, then I’m sure if any of The Silent Friedkin’s, would have been inside the stadium, that day, then it would have given them an indication of how very special their investment could become, if they just got that little bit emotionally involved, even for just a little while?

Everyone I speak to about Everton, is either saying I’m just glad the season is over, or let’s just leave out talking about us for a couple of weeks hey. The excitement of looking forward to going to the new stadium last summer was one of anticipation, now I think there is currently a lot of dread, thinking about watching another season of David Moyes, style football. Hopefully it all ends well🤞

You know Tony, take a look at Lyndons poll on here, 77% of voters think David Moyes should be offered a new contract. Unbelievable. Just Unbelievable.
So please, someone, please explain to me your logic of keeping Moyes, never mind actually offering a new contract. Because the thing I don't see is a ground swell of these proportions supporting these findings, which, if accurate, would condemn us to a decade of nothing.