Bang, bang! Bang, bang, bang! Bang, bang, bang, bang! ARSENAL!!! What a racket we made as the teacher (a well known Magistrate) tried in vain to control his maths class first thing on a Monday morning. A strict, no-nonsense disciplinarian, he was powerless. He could not silence us.  

The school had not been infiltrated over the weekend by twenty-odd young Gooners. The ear-splinting noise was coming from Evertonians. Charlie George had smashed home a Cup final winner that weekend. He had plunged Kopites into utter despair. How we (the majority of the class) rejoiced. The desks took a proper pounding. Bang, bang! Bang, bang, bang!

It wasn't the done thing to hate your rivals back then. You couldn't be seen to be hating the club supported by your arl fella, your brothers, or your mates — that was to come later — but, everyday, it  became more difficult not to dislike them. After dominating the semi-final against them, we found ourselves losing all shape when big Labby was forced to come off with an injury. They were able to take advantage. I still feel the pain over half a century later. The Kopites were unbearable. There was simply no living with them... Bastards.

Bally was sold. Colin injured. the Cat's health was deteriorating. We had enough problems of our own to worry too much when they won a European trophy.

Our chance to put the record straight came at Main Road. They were overwhelming favourites, but we arrived full of hope. We had a magician within our ranks. We played them off the park.  Who could have imagined that Clive Thomas's attention-seeking decision was to be repeated so painfully, often for another half a century?  

We were unable to repeat the performance in the replay. Afterwards the Kopites were far more interested in goading Blues than celebrating their win — another precedent was being set. After waiting for all of 10 seconds for the three Kopite friends, who were sharing our van, we (five Blues)  made the unanimous decision to fuck off and leave them stranded in Manchester. It was official now — we really disliked each other.

Not long after, they were coming down Scottie with the European Cup. I couldn't bring myself to go out but I remember about a dozen Blues leaving the Holy house to applaud them as their bus went past St Anthony's. The Blue sportsmanship was greeted with vile abuse from Kopites. This was echoed by the RS skipper Emlyn Huges on the steps of their parade destination... Dislike was turning to hatred.   

Younger fans will struggle to believe that it wasn't always like this. We were not divided by religion. We didn't come from different parts of town. We didn't even come from different families. When we were growing up, some of us didn't even sleep in different beds. I remember feeling immense pride as the bus sailed around the island outside Lewis's in 1966. I loved seeing a sea of blue flowers... but I was kinda proud of the red ones too. Our City puffed its chest out. We were united. We loved our football and we had proven we were better than everyone else.

I often hear people refer to the European ban of 1985 which was dished out to the innocent as well as the guilty as the catalyst for the great divide that now exists between this City's football clubs, but from my experience and memory the hatred (there's that word again) had long since been established.

I think most will remember the time when they realised just how much we disliked each other; the moment when, for them, it went beyond rivalry. I doubt very much that we all came to that point at the same time. After the same match. 

There can be little doubt that Liverpool FC has been better managed than our club since the days when Sir John ruled and Catterick's entertainers were strutting their stuff. But for an all-too-brief interlude in the eighties, they have generally finished above us. Our seemingly endless barren spell has coincided with a seemingly endless spell of trophy winning for them.

Envy would have been the most natural emotion, but it has become so much deeper than that. Instead of enjoying their success, they simply became bad winners. Their fans became boorish. Arrogant. Entitled. I'm not just talking about bragging. I'm talking about loutish, disrespectful behaviour. The disgusting way they have represented our City. Ask around the country and you will find that "Everybody's favourite second team" is actually despised. Would we have been the same? Is it merely success which has determined two teams growing from the same community should have such very different cultures? No, is my immediate answer. 

But here's the thing: While I agree with David France's analogy when he described one club as art and the other pornography, I want trophies. I don't want to emulate them (perish the thought), but I'm desperate for success. We can't keep satifying ourselves by feeling morally superior. You cannot parade the high moral ground through a city. 

When I think of the logic-defying amount of luck and decisions that have gone in their favour of down the years; the snide "going down" parties they were arranging behind our backs, while wishing us well to our faces; the satisfaction they derived when we too were punished for Heysel (I can't forget that); their moronic durges; their choreographed celebrations; the media love-ins; Emlyn-fucking-Hughes... 

I want to see scores settled. I don't just want a victory on Sunday. I want a victory which will set us on the road to dominating this City for a very long time. 

I used to think the world was flat
Rarely threw my hat into the crowd
Felt I had used up my quota of yearning


Reader Responses

Selected thoughts from readers
Certain off-topic comments may be removed to keep the discussion on track

1  Dave Carruthers
17/04/2026    15:30:20

Very good Darren. I think we must be the same age as remember the school reaction to the final, but also the utter horror of that semi final when I was with my Dad and a few mates at Old Trafford. That first half was the last rites for that great side ( ignoring the one off 8.0 in the snow vs Southampton later that year). Harvey and Ball were magnificent and no doubt we would have won if Labone had not been injured ( and indeed Kenyon not Brown had been sub). For all the glory of the mid 80’s we, in my view, have never hit the heights again of 66-71 and I am forever grateful I was able to experience that team, the pure joy of going to Goodison and knowing we would play glorious football. The Clive Thomas decision and Hughes unforgivable and childish arrogance a few weeks later was a key change in the relationship, albeit there did seem to be an interlude in 84. Benitez became the Hughes of the modern era and the animosity remains strong. The joy of finishing 5th and pipping them to the last CL place would be so sweet. Lets hope Sunday is the start point🤞🏻

2  Jamie Evans
17/04/2026    15:44:48

I’m not one for large, over the top statements so I’ll choose my words wisely.

This article is the greatest thing I’ve ever read in my life and is more important than The Bible.

I’m coming up (just) a few years behind both Darren and Dave so I really remember it all starting for me at the conclusion of the 85/86 season. I can still feel it now.

I often wondered why my Dad always wanted Emlyn Hughes’ team to get beat on A Question of Sport. After he told me about his speech on the steps of St George’s Hall, I understood completely.

One love.
One team.
One Everton.

Tell your children.

3  Kieran Fitzgerald
17/04/2026    15:58:55

They're nobody's second team. Most fans I know, regardless of club, despise LFC fans and their club.

What makes it worse is how the media fawn over them. LFC always seem to get more coverage.

Bad winners is an apt description as well. I know plenty of Utd fans from their recent heyday amd I've always gotten on well with them.

It id a pity that things have gotten so bad between the sets of fans. Given what the city of Liverpool had been though, there shouldn't be division.

I can only hope that we have learned from our own failures a d others' successes in how a club should be run. As much as it sticks in my throat to say it, they have been very well ran as a club, both on and off it.

4  Christine Foster
17/04/2026    16:54:56

Darren, your recollections are sublime, accurate and painful memories. I never grew up hating them, that came much later, not because of jealousy of their hoard of trophies, but because of the angry, bitter vindictive nature of their arrogance. It's often said now that they play the victims at every turn but it's not that simple, they have mastered the arrogance of entitlement to a whole new level, one were any failure to praise is met with bile and a vileness that initially leaves you stunned.

Hate is a much used description of our relationship, but it's worse than that, it's having a family member laugh in your face, spittle flying curses of ridicule and belittlement.

Father Flynn of All Souls church on a Sunday morning would ask for forgiveness for what they do, but it changed one particular Sunday into asking forgiveness for who they are. The dye had been cast and today the only way back is humble, crushing defeats. My Nan dragged me to confession one Thursday night after I had used a word I didn't even know the meaning of in childish retaliation and I had to tell Farther Flynn, a devout blue, what I said. He quietly asked if I knew what it meant and on my reply said, "No Father" l replied, to which he sighed and told me I should be ashamed.. "But what for Father?" 5 Hail Mary's later I seethed with indignant confusion, unjustly penalised for having merely told the truth.

It's been a long time coming, but the wheel turns, let them have a taste of their own medicine. I will only chuckle and say 5 Hail Mary's just in case..

5  Paul Tran
17/04/2026    18:18:46

Top stuff, Darren. As you often say, 'Get paid'.

I wasn't at OT in 1971, but that was the day I started disliking them. That day in 1977 at Maine Road was the day I knew I hated them. Only two times I heard my Dad swear at the butch. That day was one, the other was the AC Milan Uefa Cup game in 1974.

We're getting better off the pitch, now it's time to focus on what we do on it. At their throats for 90 mins when they have the ball, clear, calm heads when we have it.

I was on the Kop on that marvellous day in 1984, when Sharp scored that cracker and there was a sense around that shithole that it was our time, we were taking over.

Let's have that again on Sunday.

6  David Bromwell
17/04/2026    19:34:22

Oh dear, sorry but I beg to differ. It's about 75 years since I saw my first match and I have experienced many of the emotions you all mention. However, my best memories are were when we were one and two in the league and in the most difficult of times we sang Merseyside, Merseyside together at Wembley.

Football has of course always been important in our City, but now it's more than a game it's big business and that means jobs and investment. It also means that when I was in Dublin earlier this week talking to an Irish Red who had been to the match on Wednesday, he told me how he had asked the taxi driver to take him past our New Stadium.

So I hope we can celebrate Sunday with a win, no silly bookings and certainly no sending off's. After so many years in the doldrums we look like we are a Club that's on the up, so I hope we celebrate that with joy and good humour. With the World in such a mess we need to enjoy our football and certainly we do not need to be at war with fellow supporters where ever they come from and who ever they support.

7  Peter Fancy
17/04/2026    20:48:44

I utterly loathe them. I cannot remember wanting to beat them more than this weekend. You’ll never walk alone is it? Oh unless you’re 4-0 down at Citeh and then you’re offski sharpish. Players left to walk alone apparently. How I would love to see the away end that empty with 20 to go on Sunday.

Abject Arne crying in his press conference today about how Liverpool got nothing from the referee in the last Goodison derby. Seriously? What about the shite getting away with blue (red) murder for the last 30 years thanks to your pet officials?

Massive sliding doors moment on Sunday that could have lasting repercussions…

8  Gerry Morrison
17/04/2026    20:58:31

Well said Darren. When I was a kid in the 60s I had Liverpudlian friends. By the 70s and 80s I had none. I have red cousins of course, but other than family, I can’t remember having much to do with any of them in the last forty years.

9  Paul Ferry
18/04/2026    05:17:01

Tommy Smith told me to 'fuck off' when twelve-year-old me asked him for his autograph for a red mate as we both sat on chairs outside the Nurse's room at St. Mary's College, Crosby.

They even had some decent fellas back then: Alec 'turkey gobble' Lindsay, Chris Lawler, Ian Callaghan, Brian 'the professor' Hall, and maybe one or two more. No more, needless to say.

But lunar boil face Smith taught me one of the most important lessons I ever learned at St. Mary’s: to hate him, them, castrato Emlyn, that club, all they supposedly stood for. And year-after-year that hatred grew in the Bingham/Lee years with Maine Road as the bitterest pill to swallow but ‘We’re on the way to Roma’, their derbies, their soaring sky-high arrogance and disdain, Concorde, Shithouse Lee, pocky-face Souness, and so much more, were also the petrol for my hate.

It/I wasn’t bitter; it was hate.

Only someone who lived through it all could have written something so heartfelt as Darren’s piece. He is right, of course many of us hated them long before before the mass murders. But we still met up with our red mates after derbies in The Prince of Wales on Stanley Road and went with them to the Hofbrauhaus/Bierkeller before the match for beer and strippers.

I can only go by my own experience, but the moment when we shifted from hatred to serious violence was on 22 February 1986. We beat them 2-0 at their tin shack – Ratters ’74, Lineker ’77 – and they simply could not take it. I was one of what seemed to be a good couple of thousand of us in the left-hand side of the Kop for the most part next to what passed for a main stand when things turned very nasty after our second. It might well have been Millwall v West Ham but it was us v them.

The erm ‘friendly derby’ for me died that day, as the words of those conscience-less shithouses taunting us for the European ban drifted around the ground.

I still see Smith’s boils on his greasy shiny cheeks to this day. He had a diamond tank-top on and – probably John Collier - slacks.

I am absolutely confident that we will win on Sunday. One of my best mates today, the same lad who I tried to get crater-face's autograph for, is crapping himself. He also thinks that we will win.

10  Christine Foster
18/04/2026    08:41:05

Paul, I can't pinpoint the time or place it all changed, it was for me, sometime in the 70s, but I am never ceased to be upset by people I thought I knew, spout the bile so shamelessly.

Are we the same? Just a hairs breath away from being like them? ( "I wouldn't be you" - Chrissy from Boys from the Black Stuff)

I like to believe nothing could make me the same as them, it's scary, just thinking about it but I can honestly say I think we could or would never be like that.

I think we hate them not just because we are ( mostly) from the same stock and as a fanbase they have by default dragged down the name of the city, I feel tarred with the same brush, unjustly.

We are not all saints Paul but I think we stand head and shoulders above them and they know it, which just makes matters worse.

I think we are starting to see the demise of them as a football powerhouse, they may have far more income but that will drop too. I hope on Sunday we can help them on their way and show them who built the city and who owns it still. 2-0 to the blues.

11  Antony Abrahams
18/04/2026    12:05:27

I haven’t been using this very sensible website, because I have forgotten my password but, I have just realised I can use facial recognition on my phone and I had to comment on Darren’s vey good article (you are also a lot more sensible on this website Darren, I wonder why!)

Keeping it short, I’m not bitter either and you only have to read this excellent summary to understand who the most bitter people are, imo.

I saw a great thing written on WhatsApp, explaining why people and especially Evertonians, just don’t like Liverpool FC, and my immediate thoughts were that the bastards will be sniggering because a lot of them just don’t really care.

The only thing that is going to make us get under their skin is an Everton victory, especially for the ones who decide to go into town to watch the game on TV.

They are going to see that things have changed, the geography of our new stadium has automatically made us the City team, and this realisation alone is going to be giving them nightmares, especially if us bitter bastards are dancing in the streets!

Liverpudlians don’t do irony Kieran F, because for a lot of these delusional people, they actually think they are universally loved🤷

12  Steve Hogan
18/04/2026    13:01:58

Darren, a brilliant impassioned article stating the feelings most of us feel about the 'other lot'.

I'm 70 now and have attended all of the games against them that are highlited by many of the contributors above, and have suffered accordingly. The 80's were a fantastic time to be a Blue, cruelly cut short by the actions of their fans at Heysel.

I live 20 miles outside the city now in Cheshire but still have a season ticket.
Our fortunes have seen a steady decline over 40 years, most of it self inflicted I believe, by the Directors in charge of the welfare of the club over the years.

Whilst the football world was changing rapidly, with the advent of the Premier league and the growing influence of Sky, we steadfastly refused to recognise the massive way in which football clubs in the top division were evolving.

I cite the 'lesser' clubs Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth, who were much smarter in their recruitment than Everton ever were.

Brentford's purchase of Thiago for £30m from Club Brugge a perfect example. If they sell, he'll go for £70m plus.

Kenwright had many opportunities to attract outside investment, and relinquish control of his trainset, but refused point blank.
Instead he brought the club to the brink of bankruptcy, by relying on payday loans from dodgy financial outfits at interest rates of up to 15%,whilst established high street banks refused to play ball with the basket case that was Everton.

Thank god for the Friedkin group.

The club is now financially stable and better times are ahead, without a doubt. But there is long road ahead before we can challenge the 'devils club' in real terms.

Whilst their having a bad season currently, their record turnover last season of £700m plus, compared to Everton's turnover of £186m show's there still is some way to go.

Whether Slot stay's or goes, the new manager will have a substantial financial war chest to pick Europe's best player's from.

I'm thrilled Everton are starting to look like the club we all want them to be, but in reality, were not yet in a position to mount a serious challenge to them yet

UTFT

13  Harry Hockley
18/04/2026    19:33:18

Jamie 2,

“Im not one for large over the top statements, so I’ll choose my words wisely“

Proceeds to make an absolute over the top ridiculous statement and not choose his words very carefully at all! Brilliant stuff! I really chuckled at that.

But on a serious note, I think hate is a strong word (emotion) I don’t hate Liverpool at all, that would be a waste of energy and bitterness is bad for ones spirit and soul.

I wish them nothing but success and happiness and who knows, maybe we can both achieve success together and set an example of how two clubs from the same city can compete against each other, not only with passion and ferocity but more importantly with grace and humility.


14  John Raftery
18/04/2026    23:11:01

Great piece Darren, thanks. Somehow they have always been around to spoil things for us.

I remember several seasons in the late sixties our league position would have qualified for the Inter Cities Fairs Cup we were excluded by the nonsensical one city/one club entry rule. That was when I really started to resent them.

In the 1969/70 season we won 17 home games, drew 3, losing only one, to them 3-0. Thankfully we took our revenge in March before sealing the title.

We had the awful seven year drought 1971-1978 without a derby win. That included five years without a goal.

It goes on: Heysel, semi-finals and finals where referees always favoured them. Why didn’t Hitler bomb Treorchy, Mr Clive Thomas?

As for the ‘Merseyside, Merseyside’ chants in 1984, they were soon cast aside the moment they won the League Cup. It was then nothing but ‘Liverpool, Liverpool’.

We suffered the ridiculous joint parade in 1986 so they could rub it in after they won the double at our expense.

I’ll stop there. It’s high time we gave them one hell of a beating.

15  Paul Ferry
18/04/2026    00:01:46

Nice Harry (13): as previously stated by a few on here, we understand hate and bitterness in very different ways. I'm afraid that there are snatches of one of them in you when you thoughtfully advise us not to be bitter.

This made me in Harry's word 'chuckle': 'an absolute over the top ridiculous statement and not choose his words very carefully at all!'

And, ladies and gentlemen, what did our good old Harry tap seconds later? 'I wish them nothing but success and happiness'. I know of no other Evertonian in my life who could ever write crap as 'ridiculous' as that.

But it is the rest of us who must choose our words 'very carefully'

I doubt that you will be there on Sunday 'arry but you will be easy to spot if you are, as the only one with a double us and them scarf.

Meanwhile, your post happily took me back to the days of Never Mind the Quality Feel the Width, Captsin Scarlet and the Mysterons, and 24 Hours with Cliff Michelmore, although Christine and Darren might, quite rightly, correct me about my rose-tinted memories of the times of Not in Front of the Children.

16  Alan schofield
19/04/2026    08:27:12

I used to be a bookseller back in the day and if you haven't read 'Manchester United ruined my Life' by Colin Shindler you should. He wrote it about 15 years ago and it parallels how we feel as the 'other' team in a big city. Hopefully we can emulate the Arab club and become greater than them.

17  Darren Hind
19/04/2026    08:38:24

David @6

That's a cracking post mate. I promise you, I understand your point. I thought long and hard about using the word "hate" when I was typing this out. Right up until I hit the send button, the title of the piece was going to be "Every day I love you less and less", but that just wouldnt sit right. I felt it suggested I still have a small degree of love for them. unfortunately, the more I typed, the more I realised I never did.

I began by recalling what happened on my 16th birthday, but despite being content to share the limelight with them for a short while as a youngster, I think I must have been born with an inherent dislike of them.

Yeah - I know.... But after reading some of the responses I'm not 100% convinced that I'm alone on that score.

In over sixty years of watching this club, I'm sure there have been games which I have wanted to win more than this one today but I honestly cant think of any. This is more than a one off.

The tide is turning

18  John Burns
19/04/2026    09:59:05

Please don’t do an ‘Everton That’, today. Just win.

I’m hastily writing this on early Sunday morning. Every result went for us yesterday. Even though bizarrely it meant us dropping from eight to tenth position. A win today again Liverpool will rocket us into sixth place and only two points behind them in fifth place. Dare we think the unthinkable? Dare we take this unimaginable opportunity to seriously challenge for a Champions League place?

If yer know yer history the answer is a resounding No! We all always shoot ourselves in the foot and to an ‘Everton That’ and blow gilt headed opportunities.

But this is a real chance to beat Liverpool. I’ve been watching them over the past few weeks, which I don’t normally do. They are weak in so many areas. it’s absolutely wonderful to behold!! Salah is a shadow of his former self. Van Dyke is slow and blames his teammates for gaffes instead of looking at his own performance. The rest of the team, whose names I’ve never to bothered to remember are lacking in confidence and the whole team looks vulnerable. It’s great.

So Davey Moyes, this is your moment. The supporters are well up for it. The team coach will be met by thousands. The sky will be painted blue from exploding flares. (They cost twenty quid on Amazon, by the way). The stadium will be a bear pit. The noise and flag waving at the new stadium will be like nothing before. The ‘Visitors will be Eaten’ sign will be clearly visible.

So Davey Moyes, this is your moment. Make sure they are up to it. Show no fear. Give a Henry V or the ’Dogs of War’ speech if necessary. Do whatever it takes to make the players smell and then taste the blood of victory. This is your moment. It’s our moment. No excuses Davey. No excuses.

19  Edward Rogers
19/04/2026    10:39:48

Paul F. "John Collier slacks" Brilliant 😂
Wasn't John Collier " the window to watch" or is my ageing memory playing tricks?

20  Edward Rogers
19/04/2026    11:01:32

Paul F. "John Collier slacks" Brilliant 😂
Wasn't John Collier " the window to watch" or is my ageing memory playing tricks?

21  Christine Foster
19/04/2026    12:42:57

John, just let big Dunc do the pre match instructions, please God David, show me you've changed, this is not a game to surrender two thirds of the pitch. There aren't better, just make my year.

22  Jerome Shields
19/04/2026    13:35:26

Agree Christine Everton have to be on the front foot for this one, and definitely not 10 yards off the play.Hopefully Slot will get a red card.

23  Christine Foster
19/04/2026    16:09:00

I think hate is quite an appropriate word all things considered.

24  Gerry Morrison
19/04/2026    16:19:34

John Connolly John Connelly the winger to watch.

25  Paul Ferry
22/04/2026    08:07:50

Spot on Edward - 19 - hang on till 0.59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvw_ZsKmioE

We had a John Colliers on South Road in Waterloo - never seemed quite that swinging. My mum took me there once but I can't remember what for.

The song was released on vinyl.

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