Moyes — Time to Let Him Go

It may not be long before we need to let him go Nick but not yet, not yet.

He’s been heavily criticised and justly I might add, however it’s a little overboard and the man certainly deserves another season, he knows what we as fans expect and I know he is able to deliver but it’s difficult with players who are not good enough, let’s see what 26/27 brings.

Harry, the players were good enough to be in the top ten for much of the season. The fact that the wheels came off over the last seven matches & the Club dropped down to 13th is entirely the responsibility of the manager.

Moyes does not deserve another season. I doubt very much that he understands what the supporters want, nor do I think he cares about their hopes & expectations. I know he is able to deliver... mediocrity.

Moyes is a bottler not a winner. His self interest exceeds his drive to make the Club a success - btw, I'm giving Moyes the benefit of the doubt there as I've seen scant evidence that he's ever been driven by a desire for Everton to be successful. Moyes is merely driven by the narrative he builds around his own carefully contrived Managerial persona. It's always about him.

Nick, you say this: "We finally have the stadium, the ownership, and the resources to stop being patient and start being ambitious."

What resources are you talking about?

And what does ambition actually translate to?

I felt very much at the end of last season that it was time to let him go but it was always on the proviso that it was for the man that TFG saw as the long-term successor to implement whatever vision they have for Everton.

If that man wasn't available, I'm content that they've opted to let things play out for another season rather than hire either another stop-gap (spending compensation money in the process) or someone a lot lower down their list of managerial targets.

Moyes will, no doubt, infuriate and frustrate us this coming season and I don't expect us to pull up many trees but he has at least shown in the past that he can get us into a competitive position once most of the personnel pieces are in place. So I'm hopeful of a better season than the last if we get the recruitment right this summer.

The more I hear and read about Hackney, the more encouraged I am by that signing. Getting George back would a positive move and I'm hoping that the difference between a centre-half playing out of position and a genuinely decent natural right-back will make a measurable difference. All the better if we can match it with an upgrade at left-back as well.

compliments to you nick, for such a well written article. mr moyes should have been given his p45 in may for the combination of his awful style of anti football and relegation form collapse in the last 7 games - not to mention stubborn team selection. I said stubborn maybe I should have said stupid.
his later press conferences have been cringeworthy and ultra defensive a bit like the on pitch offering !
i was ok with him in his first 6 or 7 seasons in his first spell but lost patience as his his tactics mean any decent striker gets pissed off and leaves. johnson jelavic , beattie (ok half decent ! ) anyway knives to a gunfight ! in moyes we trust - my forever blue membership won't be getting renewed what's the point ?
drop nsno off our badge and replace with the latin translation of "stability is our benchmark"

This is the best set of players he's had since coming back to the club. If the quality of the squad is evolving, then so should the quality of their performance on the pitch, right?

People aren't convinced. Moyes has shown in recent seasons that he isn't capable of evolving, of adapting. He seems to gave become set in his ways.

Yet, in his first stint with us, once he had a decent squad in place, there was regular European qualification. While last season was a monumental screw up, and there's no hiding from that, perhaps that version of Moyes, after this summer transfer window, will resurface.

Perhaps this is part of a medium term strategy being implemented by the owner's. They have shown that they are prepared to spend money on bringing the squad up to a certain standard, up to a level where it can compete domestically and in Europe. Moyes, from his first stint with us, had shown he can do this.

The West Ham squad he had was no great shakes. And while the conference league has it's detractors, he still won it with them. West Ham getting relegated has shown that perhaps there was some justification in his approach there, some qualities, some sense of achievement during his time there.

It's a gamble by the owners. They may not be happy with how last season ended. There may have been harsh words behind closed doors with Moyes. But the strategy is there.

And as Lyndon pointed out, if the managerial successor isn't there to continue the strategy, then wait for now and stick to the plan.

Managers and owners are not necessarily pursuing the same objective over the same timescale. A manager's success is measured over the life of his contract, whereas ownership must consider the value and competitiveness of the club over many years. That difference in incentives makes strategic alignment essential, which does not seem to be happening at Everton. Without it, decisions that maximise short-term results may inadvertently reduce long-term value.In the PSR /SCR era this becomes a Financial problem.I agree Moyes needs to go.

Awaiting the delayed England kick off, I agree totally with this well written article.

Moyes should have been sacked the day after the Spurs match, in fact he should have gone 12 months ago. He did a good job keeping us up but it would have been well worth the money paying him off.

I only renewed our season tickets out of habit and assuming he is still in place I’m simply not looking forward to it, with no chance whatsoever of winning a trophy and the inevitable prospect of more dreary football.

My first match at Goodison was not long after John Moores arrived. I got used to expecting to compete and win trophies and remember leaving Wembley in 1995 thinking that we really were on the way back after a number of lean years.

Kenwright would soon shatter that dream and after 31 years I am thoroughly fed up being expected to accept another season of mid table mediocrity.

Glasner has joined Forest.

Robert, shows he was keen to start another job straight away and stay in England. His work and success over the last two seasons are impressive. Ah well.

Things might go swimmingly next season, or we might be hoping Dycge is still available.

It might also show he was interested in a squad well set up for his specialist 3421, with greater current revenue (and therefore spending power) than Palace and a squad at least as good as Palace.

We currently offer none of those things.

I think Glazner, has a lot of ambition and I make this assessment because of the way he had already decided to leave Palace, well before the season finished. He was probably fed-up selling his better players but he did promise his chairman, that he was going to try and leave on a very high note.

No caution, just belief, and my own belief is that Glazner, would have taken the Everton job, because he has seen our fan base, he has managed a team inside our new stadium, and he will have also been aware of the massive potential Everton football club genuinely possess because of these very important factors.

Money is important, but I don’t think he had loads of money at Palace (I might be wrong) and I just think some managers, will be aware of how big a club like Everton, could be, if they are just given time to get it right?

Tony, the Everton job you’re describing probably doesn’t really materialise for another season or two.

Why Robert, is it because you think Everton, don’t generate enough MONEY yet?

Was the Palace job, that Glazner took a couple of years ago, a much more exciting proposition at that time, than if he had been offered the Everton job this summer?

The stadium is open, the excitement and the expectation that the new stadium was supposed to bring is already diminishing, and because football has always been about the here and now, then continuing with Moyes, is just completely uninspiring, imo.

Yes Tony - that’s correct. No matter how much people rail against it or try to ignore it, that’s correct.

Glasner will now be looking to step up from what he achieved at Palace - and for that he needs a bigger budget than he had at Palace. Our revenue levels mean we can’t offer him that yet. We don’t have a better squad either. We’d basically be offering him the chance to stand still for a couple of years while we build up our spending power.

He’s not a Everton fan - why would he think any differently?

Robert, I see the comparison between us and Palace. I don't see how Forest is a bigger job, or a better option, for a manager with ambition.

I could understand if it was Brighton or Brentford, a steady club with European football next season. But Forest have a daft owner, very recent issues with PSR, which aside from being it's own issue, also means limited spending power.

Yes, they've sold Anderson for big money, but that in itself may not solve the budgetary constraints that a lower level PL club would also have in general.

Time will tell. I think Glasner is a good manager, and I have a soft spot for Forest. I remember Clough still being there and the aura the club had with him there.

Forest have spent the past few seasons spending very hard indeed - to the point where they have muscled in on the Rich 8 and appear hell bent to spend their way into the Champions League.

Now, I didn’t say Everton wouldn’t be attractive to Glasner. I think we would have been.

In comparison to Forest - it is primarily because they have a lunatic owner and the business model (to the extent Glasner cares) appears unsustainable. West Ham attempted similar and look where it got them. We attempted something similar in idiotic fashion and look where it got u:.

What I am saying is that the Everton opportunity Tony describes looks more like how the vacancy would be perceived in a year or two- not now. In a year or two I expect we willl be a very attractive prospect indeed with a much better squad and a much bigger transfer kitty.

Alas Nick, whilst your article spells out your perspective with great clarity and aligns very well with my own, I fear we are shouting against the wind. Lyndon own poll on the front page of this very site asks its readers should he be offered a new contract, see out his current one or thanked and let go now.
Out of the 10,500 or so votes, only a staggering 300 thought he should go now.
Is that truly representative of the overall fanbase? Are they really happy with Moyes? Is their memory that short or what is the crushing expectation of Moyes that apparently they are happy with?

Watching the WC and seeing teams play attacking football rather than percentage, made me see just how far the mindset of Moyes and the club has fallen and what is deemed acceptable. It would appear fans are also in agreement in that poll is indicative of overall opinion.
I must have been watching football on another planet.

I see and appreciate a lot of TWebbers views on Moyes but we have to acknowledge he inherited a squad that was relegation level and almost immediately brought an improved style of football over the "Ale house" football of Dyche and turned us into a mid table team.

I agree that Moyes is not the medium to long term answer but he deserves at least a chance to complete his contract with a half decent group of players.

we are no longer pursuing the crazy spending on poorly researched players and as Robert has maintained for some time starting to match other teams recruiting.

There is so much commercial income now such that the playing field for the none rich 6 has become a lot closer and more competitive and only recruiting top level players will bridge that gap

Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford are well run clubs no matter who is managing them and the next step of our development has to be to finish above them and get into Europe. We fell short last season due to some tactical and team selection errors by Moyes but predominantly because the players were not good enough.

With the addition of new fullbacks and some "goalscoring" players I am more hopeful for the coming season.

There is no doubt we are a big club with a massive, knowledgable and passionate fanbase but until we are matching the spending and recruitment of world class players will not return to the top anytime soon.

It is the club that needs to show ambition and adhere to our NSNO motto not just the manager.

Thank you, Nick, for a superb article. I agree with every word. I am struggling to summon the energy to tolerate another season of the tedious and frustrating predictability of Everton under Moyes.

We aren't great, I think we can all agree on that.
And Moyes behaviour in the last couple of months in alarming. With the previous good work undone in lots of respects.
However, I would like to point out, I think we have a shocking squad. Like, really bad. Take a look at that back four. I also think both wingers who starred for us last year could be not returning. And I also think we need a quality striker.
So, we are looking at a MASSIVE rebuild. And in double quick time. It's nobody's fault necessarily that we are in this pickle, it's what happens when you don't invest in the squad for five yrs. All those excellent free transfers are coming to the end of their shelf life all at once, and so we will need to be spending lots and lots just to stay still. For that job, Moyes I still trust more than most.

sorry jay @19 and kevin @21 - I for one cannot see any difference on the pitch now and when sean dyche was in charge. the only difference is we have spent more ! 1 point more in 25-26. and jay you mentioned ale house football under dyche and yeah it was never pretty but our tactics on corners against man utd at home in february were awful - absolutely embarrassing - rough ale house worse than wimbledon in the 90's.
this acceptance of mediocrity and in moyes we trust. what do we trust him to do exactly ?
does anyone else feel annoyed when reds say "you'll be safe with moyes" there is a reason why they repeat this.
yeah stick with him and you get stockholm syndrome !!!

Jay #19, it's simply not true that Moyes "inherited a squad that was relegation level" Moyes maintained a lower mid table consistency that has barely varied in terms of points or league position for 4 successive seasons. If you think that we have been at relegation level throughout that period then you also have to credit Moyes with keeping us there.

If the utterly pathetic way last season ended with Moyes continuing with the same failing lineup week in and week out, refusing to use players who did no wrong and got results for us when he had literally no other option but to play them earlier in the year, was not enough reason to shake hands and part ways then lord help us.

Just to play devils advocate though, I wonder if those West Ham fans who wanted rid still feel the same following relegation..?

Unfortunately, Moyes IS going to be here come the start of next season.And unless things go very badly, he’s going to be here for it’s entirety.Of course, we could all be in for a huge shock and Dour Dave decides to send the team out playing attacking, adventurous front foot football every week!! But realistically, we all know he won’t…it’ll just be the same cautious, containing safety first approach from him.But what really annoys me are the “Be Careful What You Wish For” brigade, who all seem to believe that because West Ham nosedived after Moyes’ departure, the same thing will automatically happen to us.Where’s the actual evidence for this??..Or can these people see into the future??
My response to these people is this:Were Bournemouth careful what they wished for back in 2023? They sacked Gary O’Neill that summer, despite him steering the club comfortably clear of relegation after taking over from Scott Parker when they were bottom of the Premier League after the first few games, and had just been thrashed 9-0 by Liverpool.No, Bournemouth were brave and appointed a manager who they believed was better and more progressive than O’Neill…Iraola.And they’ve been proved right.They also play much more exciting football than we do!! Who’s to say that couldn’t happen to us if the club’s owners and hierarchy showed that sense of ambition and courage?
Sadly, that’s not likely to happen as long as the operative word at Hill Dickinson continues to be “stability”.Which part of me sort of gets after all the trials and tribulations of recent seasons.But that doesn’t alter the fact that David Moyes’ Everton are a seriously dull, frustrating watch much of the time!! And despite us not exactly having a squad of attacking talent, the dour one has to take much of the blame for this dull, joyless football because of how he sets the team up, and his obsession with keeping things tight.Running the risk of losing a game in order to win it is simply not in his managerial DNA…and never has been.

David, I don't doubt there are managers out there capable of playing better football than Moyes will do next season. However, there are also some phoneys out there (many of whom have been championed hard on fans pages as potential Everton managers) who could arse things up for us big time at a critical moment under the new owners.

So swapping managers is not without risk.

It is also not without cost.

The managerial position at the club next season is, in any case, much much less important than our summer recruitment.

Neverliked him first time around & certainly didn't want him back when he returned, infact I was dismayed at the bewildering decisiion.

I never rated him first time around. A busted flush, if Everton are to progress & emerge as a footbaĺling power house he needs to go.

But unfortunately weare stuck with him until our Texan owners wake up & smell the coffee.

I hope the proverbial loser is replaced by serial winner Carlo the don Ancelotti although other candididates remain in the frame such as recently derted fotmrr Liverpool cosch Arne Slot.

Danny that just isn’t true - the Texan owners don’t need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I am sure they are well aware of Moyes’ pros and cons - and his suitability (or not) as a long term manager.

Which is why they appear to be (not illogically) waiting until the end of the season when Moyes’ contact is up.

Do we all want Everton to be a big successful club (for the first time in Premier League history)?

Yes.

Are we equipped to be that under any manager next season.

No.

Could we accelerate it a bit by sacking Moyes?

Possibly - but as Thomas Frank showed last season you can discover an apparently good manager is pretty rubbish when you take him out of his comfort zone.

So there is risk too.

Will we be a more attractive outfit for quality managers this time next summer?

Almost certainly yes - since the squad building will have progressed further and the transfer kitty should be bigger as spending constraints ease.

I think everyone knows that really - it’s just that Moyes sucks the fun out of it all and it’s deeply annoying.

If Everton are to progess next season we need Moyes gon thi summer. I can hypoyhetocally see him moving sideways into a Sporing Director / DoF role & in time onto the board.

So, its Moyes out for me sooner rather than later. But I fear our Texan owners are happy in their comfort zone & will give dithering Davey another season, possibly to be be reviewed against whether expectations are being met.

Lets look at the potential candidates who could replace Moyes.

Our hesitation has already cost us the apparent fans' preffered choice Oliver Glasner.

Carlo "the Don" Ancelotti would be my preferred choice.

An audacious bid for serial winner, the Catalan Pep Guardiola shouldn't be ruled out. Why shouln't the club think bit & show ambition?

I like the idea of Thoms Frank. He performed miracles at Brentford. Forget his time at Tottemed where he flopped. He was on a hiding to nothing, inheriting a poison chalice at a shipwreck of a club.

Another I respect is cùrrent US coach, former Southanton & Tottenham manager Pochettino.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a play for recently departed former Liverpool coach Arne Slot. His Liverpool connections may irk some, but I have no concern for that & it would be nowhere near as toxic as the Benitez apointment.

Finaly, it maybe worth a punt on former Schalke, RB Leipzig & Manchester United head coach Ralf Rangnick, one of footballs wise old managers.

Not forgetting the possibilty of the return of Bobby brown shoes. Quite frankly the prospect makes me shudder.

Eithe way, its a vote of no confidence in Moyes for me.

Moyes out!!!

You don’t think we can make Europe next season under Moyes, Danny?

I’ve always seen you as a shining beacon of optimism when it comes to Everton!

I like to look at how the Premier League squads all shape up at the end of the window before forming a view.

This summer though it is not unhelpful to see managerial change at Bournemouth and Palace - and Brighton appearing to settle for the Hurzeler glass ceiling.